Curse

doctorshock · Mar 05, 2009, 01:50 AM // 01:50

Hi guys.
I'm pretty new to protting as a monk and find it fun and challenging. I like receiving feedback and improving myself because I am far from decent.

I run this bar:
OwUTMwHDVaMSL6uSg4BsmIDwEAA

I was pugging as usual because I'm guildless and got accepted into a r10+ group running balanced. We were doing OK first couple maps then at Unholy Temples we faced a equally high ranked balanced spike team. It was 2 warrs 2 rangers and a few others I forgot but those were the main damage.
I tried my best to follow both warriors at once, but realized they were both taking turns calling spikes- and I didn't know which warrior's target was the one getting spiked. I ended giving up and started guessing by putting SB on the one I thought was going to get spiked and guardian/SoA on the one simply getting trained.
Obviously, there were some times when I had to readjust and lost track of the warriors, etc. and missed a few spikes, but I also caught some too. At times when our own warrior was getting spiked I had slapped on SoA or guardian (sometimes both) before the spike and he would still end up dying.
We ended up winning the match and at the end they all started hardcore raging at me and my fail protting. I appreciate criticism but am asking you all to help interpret their complaints because I didn't understand what I could have done better.

"I had SoA and guardian on me during a spike" - those two don't really cancel each other out, do they? 50% chance to block attacks and when an attack does get through SoA should reduce the damage. At least that's what I was thinking.

"I had no prots on me while [insert warr's name] got SB and I was getting spiked"- like I said, no way in hell could I tell which warrior was calling the spike because they kept taking turns calling. I would like to know if there is a way to see who is calling when you have two caller/frontline who have similar builds.

That's all I can remember for now... they said a lot of things lol
I do have some questions about my prot skills though. Like can SoA or guardian save spikes? SoA's -5 dmg reduction for each attack doesn't seem like much when you have strong warr/ranger spikes with high dmg (and now that I think about it I could have used guardian more on spikes for this particular team's build) And is SB effective on a warrior? I do not play one and don't know if their armor is too high to trigger SB.

subarucar · Mar 05, 2009, 03:02 AM // 03:02

SoA wont save a spike, generally iv only found it any use in HB where sins are common or in RA, where there are commonly noobs who fail at damage. To catch spikes PS/SB + Reversall.

Sun Fired Blank · Mar 05, 2009, 04:16 AM // 04:16

If your pre-prot is okay and you have Guardian / SoA on targets before spikes then your job is done; the only thing you can do is reversal for your infuser if required. Any other contribution is either a post soft-prot (useless) or mid hard-prot (almost as useless). EDIT: The exception for this part of my post is any spike involving a single frontline as a deep wound platform that doesn't have dual shadowsteps. However, Guardian pre-prot is not as reliable as it used to be. It does mitigate a huge amount of damage on average, but so many dedicated spikes can punch through it really quickly, and it often pops defiles versus necrobots. In general, it's enough to blunt a spike so that your heal monk can catch it, and that should be your primary objective. You aren't required to have Spirit Bond on every spike target, and even if you did, so many packets go under SB anyways, you can't consider it entirely reliable. If a hard prot like the old Shield of Deflection would be unlikely to stop metaspikes cold, why would anything else on your bar? Shield of Absorption is often more reliable than Guardian as it works from any damage type, is not defile-susceptible, and is not probability-driven. Pre-Shield of Absorption does blunt spikes properly but your infuser has to be aware that Shield of Absorption requires multiple pulses before damage stops, and unlike most other prots it doesn't linearly reduce damage. He should also be aware of the inconsistency of Guardian or Spirit Bond.

Be careful about Spirit Bond; it's energy impractical if you misplace it, and even so, the returns are only exceptional when it soaks the majority of damages. It's okay to stack prots; they each work even stacked, but in general, it's not required or helpful as neither prot gets maximum potential. Also, the maximum potential of any prot should be adequate for damage reduction or the spike catch if properly used. You get the least from stacking a hard prot on top of a soft prot, but it's not a bad judgment per se.

In general, my use of Spirit Bond is very conservative for the reasons above. The more you monk, the more you get a sense of when people are going to spike based on their preferences. The greatest indicators of spike frequency are skill recharges and frontline adrenaline rates, so if you know which skills are involved, and you have some understanding of adrenaline rates, you know how often they can spike. Frontlines tend to lean heavy on one caller. Some teams alternate 3 primary - 1 secondary with the secondary on rend and opportunity spikes, but you should expect other setups, or simple alternation. Practice helps a lot, but unfortunately most groups in tombs don't run frontlines that alternate spiking, or even spike in general.

Losing track of a frontline is dangerous, but if you find yourself in this position every so often, it's okay. Give your heal monk a heads up, blank on the field, reacquire the frontline from scratch and work from there. You are responsible for taking care of people after they take care of themselves anyways.

Things that are definitely not your fault:

Quote:

At times when our own warrior was getting spiked I had slapped on SoA or guardian (sometimes both) before the spike and he would still end up dying.

If they spike him through a soft-prot, and you lend some kind of mid-prot (even a reversal), there are five possibilities:

1) your frontliner doesn't cancel out of primal, and he's bad
2) your midline failed to blunt damage, and they're bad
3) your midline failed to stop rend / pain / shell shock / defile / etc. on spike, and they're bad
4) they rended / etc. on spike, and your infuser is bad
5) you failed to anticipate rend / pain / etc., and you had time to re-prot, but you didn't, and you're bad

They shouldn't be able to clean spike down a frontline through even basic prot.

Quote:

"I had SoA and guardian on me during a spike" - those two don't really cancel each other out, do they? 50% chance to block attacks and when an attack does get through SoA should reduce the damage. At least that's what I was thinking.

It's okay to stack both, for the reasons that you explained and I mentioned before. If the target dies through both, refer to the list of reasons above.

Quote:

Like can SoA or guardian save spikes? SoA's -5 dmg reduction for each attack doesn't seem like much when you have strong warr/ranger spikes with high dmg (and now that I think about it I could have used guardian more on spikes for this particular team's build) And is SB effective on a warrior? I do not play one and don't know if their armor is too high to trigger SB.

Take any spike, and take the sum of pulses for Shield of Absorption or 50% average on physical damage from Guardian. They absolutely save spikes. The break-even for Spirit Bond is roughly 3 pulses, and frontliners are likely to break-even on it, although it depends on the spike composition (cracked / armor ignoring / elemental / etc.), your frontliner's armor setup (sentinel's?), and their ability to cancel primal.

Apok Omen · Mar 05, 2009, 06:15 AM // 06:15

You'll find that the higher ranked pugs are more likely to find the weaker link in the chain. I do not know your rank nor do I care, but it sounds to me like your midline wasn't helping out much. If both Warriors on the opposing team are firing off spikes individually, then you should speak up and tell your midline to help you out, no matter how high-ranked they are. If they aren't doing their job, call them out. Don't put yourself down; you are new at this and have actually showed progress (Putting SB on PR wars who don't like to cancel out is a good idea)

However, your main job is to study their damage. Where it is coming from, how each character is using it, and how to prevent it (this is where talking to your teammates comes in handy. I can't tell you the number of times I had to yell at people to stop playing grab-ass and get out of AoE....)

Btw, if all the other seven players in the group have nothing better to do than flame you, I would stay away from them.

hurric · Mar 05, 2009, 04:39 PM // 16:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorshock

"I had SoA and guardian on me during a spike" - those two don't really cancel each other out, do they? 50% chance to block attacks and when an attack does get through SoA should reduce the damage. At least that's what I was thinking.

for SoA to work, you're supposed to get hit but guardian stops 50% of the hits so probably they were saying when you put both on one target, it's not as effective as having only one of them alone.

Also what I found is that best way to learn is to make mistakes and not do them again in the future.

Snow Bunny · Mar 05, 2009, 04:52 PM // 16:52

[shield of absorption] is best for mopping up sporadic pressure.

If you're channeling-tanking on the center in HoH, it's good to SoA yourself to protect from the various AoE being thrown around.

[guardian] is better for true protting, however.